Meeting of the Marine Resources Advisory Council
18 September 2012 Volume XXII, No.5

Chairman Wise began the meeting at 2:07 pm. Brief introductions were made
by Chairman William Wise, James Gilmore, Director of the Marine Bureau of
the NYS DEC, and the Councilors present. There was full Council presence
for the day's meeting. Chairman Wise went over the meeting agenda.

Public Comment
Mr. John Mihale questioned if the agenda item "Conversation with John
Bullard, New Regional Administrator for NMFS" would include a question and
answer session and he was assured it would.

In an ongoing effort to reach a greater reading audience for the MRAC public
bulletin, several people came forward to help with this endeavor. Mr. Emerson
Hasbrouk from Cornell Cooperative Extension of Suffolk County stated that
they have formed an entity called the Squid Trawl Network through their
marine program and he offered to share the Council's bulletin and contact
information on their website http://squidtrawlnetwork.squarespace.com/.
Councilor Bob Danielson offered to reach out to The Fisherman magazine with
the Council's contact information in a news brief to also try and solicit more
interested readers. Mr. Wise thought both' were good ideas.

Minutes, 17 April 2012 & 17 July 2012 Council Meetings
The draft minutes for both these meetings were unanimously approved as
written.

Conversation with John Bullard, New NMFS Regional Administrator for
NMFS
Mr. Gilmore introduced Mr. John Bullard, who has replaced Ms. Patricia Kurkul
as the Regional Administrator of the National Marine Fisheries Service in the
Northeast. Mr. Bullard began his position in August.
Mr. Bullard introduced himself. He has spent most of his time since he began
his post traveling and getting to know the different user groups in the
Northeast. He confesses to not being a scientist; his degree is actually in architecture. However, he
feels confident in his ability as the Regional Administrator to be the voice for many in the fishing
industry. This confidence comes from his deep respect for both the recreational and commercial
fishing industry. He knows and understands the value of a busy and prosperous waterfront
community and seaport. While serving as Mayor of the City of New Bedford, Massachusetts, Mr.
Bullard worked with both recreational and commercial fishing industries in many instances. As
Mayor, Mr. Bullard was responsible for building a second water treatment plant for the city. This was
met with much resistance; although his constituents knew it was needed, no one wanted it in their
own backyard. The placement of the plant had to be within city limits in order for it to work and Mr.
Bullard feels that it cost him the next election. He made the point that although he wasn't re-elected
he was happy with his decision to build the plant because it was needed and necessary and he feels
that it was in the best interest of the city. The city now has plenty of clean water and a new shell
fishing industry was able to grow while it hadn't been able to before the treatment plant. He cited this
example to demonstrate that he is not afraid to make tough decisions and stand behind them.
Mr. Bullard's next job was to run the federal Office of Sustainable Development at NOAA during the
Clinton administration. While in that office he thought the best way to find out what areas needed
improvement would be to hear it from the public itself. He created open meetings and people came
and talked about where their concerns and/or problems were. This helped Mr. Bullard come up with
a better understanding of the public's concerns which is what he hopes to accomplish by attending
meetings such as this Council meeting. He'd like to start a conversation and find out where
improvements are needed and come with a list and prioritize it. He recognizes that times are tough;
things are more difficult in general. Years ago, it was more of a one-dimensional problem such as
overfishing. Problems now seem to be more complex, we have less fish now, climate change can be
factored in and even the funding situation has changed - for the worse. We are in a crisis situation
and he is looking for ideas from the public for ways in which he can help in his official capacity.
Many in the audience were very happy to be able to have a sounding board for their concerns. The
first to speak was John Mihale. Mr. Mihale fishes exclusively by rod & reel and his first suggestion
was a way to save money in the National Marine Fisheries budget by limiting their mailings. He
doesn't object to receiving mailings for areas of his interest, however, he receives mailings for items
that are of no concern to him. He thought perhaps when it comes time to renew a person's federal
permit; there could be a listing with areas of interest and a place for folks to check off items that are
pertinent to them. In addition to the money saved in postage, this would also save time and effort by
NMFS' staff.
Mr. Mihale's second suggestion was more specific to rod & reel fishermen. He referenced a letter he
sent to Kurkul in October 2011 in response to proposed restrictions on upgrading the size of a
commercial fishing vessel. He feels if someone who was willing to relinquish forever their right to fish
commercially with anything but rod & reel it shouldn't make any difference what size vessel they had.
Councilor Paul Farnham, a commercial fisherman since 1978, stated that he did not agree that our
marine fisheries are in poor shape. Our waters are vibrant and healthy and the fish numbers are up.
The only problem he sees is that the fisheries can't be accessed due to all the regulations. He feels
that New England is a completely separate area; their stocks may be in trouble he isn't sure. Mr.
Bullard replied that he made the statement about having less fish now and the stocks being in trouble
because New York said as much by asking to be included in the current request for "fishery disaster"
designation. Mr. Farnham also feels New York needs better representation at regional fishery
management meetings. Mr. Farnham is happy to hear that Mr. Bullard wants to be an advocate for
the commercial fishing sector. He thinks that commercial fishermen need to be thanked and treated
as heroes because they are responsible to putting food on people's table.
Mark Hoffman, a former member of MRAC who currently sits on advisory panels for the ASMFC, said
that when he attends meetings of the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council (ASMFC), the
meetings usually begin with a statement that the fish stocks are healthy and they're not being
overfished. Yet, the next step is frequently a notice from the technical committees recommending a
reduction in catch limits because the spawning stock biomass didn't measure up in their samples. He
questions where these committees get their information. A second concern brought up by Mr.
Hoffman is regarding Omega Protein Corporation. 80% of the menhaden catch along the Atlantic
Coast is for reduction to produce fish oil and he worries that, when bunker get fished out, the rest of
the fish will disappear. Mr. Hoffman's third pet peeve is blackfish. He believes that an improvement
in the condition of tautog stocks requires the registration of commercial fish pots and the institution of
a fish tag program as is present in the commercial fishery for striped bass.
Councilor Charles Witek agrees that the Atlantic is a bountiful ocean but it is such because the MidAtlantic
Fishery Management Council introduced hard controls whereas the New England Fishery
Management Council perpetuated over fishing problems with relatively soft restrictions that could be
gotten around. The use of hard catch quotas to help rebuild fish stocks and prevent overfishing
works. Mr. Witek noted that it is now time to figure out how to manage a recovered fishery, which is a
lot different from managing a depleted one. We're on new ground, we've never had the pleasure of
working with a recovered fishery before and it's going to be trial and error. He commented that, right
now, we are using state allocations that derive from 25 -30 years ago when stocks were declining.
They have nothing to do with the abundance of fish today or the demographics of the fishery; that
needs to be revisited. Mr. Witek stated that a lot of catch statistics are being based on bad
information and questionable data. Mr. Bullard agreed that you cannot base management measures
on one year's statistics. He also believes that with regional water temperatures changing the fish are
moving and we are going to need to take into account opportunities that show up and opportunities
that disappear at a much quicker pace.
Councilor Robert Danielson said that he thinks it was a wonderful decision for the hiring committee to
hire Mr. Bullard especially since he is NOT a scientist. Mr. Danielson's main concern is the data
produced by the NMFS' Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Survey (MRFSS). These data have
been described as of "questionable" quality, but Mr. Danielson believes the situation is worse than
that and that a major change needs to take place.
Chairman Wise said that his chief concern is that the Council always seems to be at the tail end of
conversations and management plans. Too often the Council is made aware of a situation where
action is needed and most times, needed quickly. To further complicate matters, many times a
decision is made without having all the facts, tables or statistics because they aren't available. All too
often a decision is reached yet at the following meeting, revised figures are available or new facts
surface which only brings about a new discussion and quite possibly a different decision. Many times
the delay in reaching an agreement makes it necessary to enact "emergency rule making",
compounding the problem yet again. Every year it seems that most of the regulations needs some
sort of alteration and some decisions take months and months of discussions here at the meetings
and for the overworked staff at the DEC. Fisheries management is admittedly a complex issue but it
just seems that we are constantly lurching from crisis to crisis.
Councilor John Davi said his biggest peeve is the inequality between states as far as allocation of
commercial catch quotas. He used North Carolina as an example; he said they have such a large
quota for fluke and then when they hit a peak, allowing the other states to come up to the point where
they are. Mr. Bullard wondered how to implement a change. He asked if you would figure out trades,
or change the way so you don't deal with state boundaries at all. He went on to say that one of the
purposes of his trip is to find the top 5-10 items that people see as the biggest problems. He would
like to educate himself on those issues and find solutions to them. There is no way he can
accomplish 100 things but he hopes to find a light at the end of the tunnel for at least 5-10 of the most
important.
Pat Augustine, a New York Commissioner to the ASMFC, said the fluke allocation decision was made
in 1999 and it was based on previous years of commercial reported harvest, nothing to do with the
recreational fishing industry. There is a movement underway to develop a new amendment to the
Mid Atlantic which would address the scup allocation. Mr. Augustine wanted people to keep in mind
that if they plan on attacking the quota setting, and try to bring the New England Council to thinking
the way the Mid-Atlantic Council thinks, the Mid-Atlantic Council is selecting 3-year time frames for
quota settings to be looked at every year.
Mr. Augustine further commented that we don't know how to manage success. There are
environmentalists and conservationists who want to protect, protect and protect and as long as we're
faced with single species management each species must be dealt with individually. We need to
move away from this. He agreed with Chairman Wise, that the Council needs to receive information
in a more timely fashion. Mr. Augustine cited the current bluefish fishery management plan as
something to be emUlated. The bluefish FMP provides that, if the recreational fishery doesn't reach a
certain harvest a percentage of the poundage it is allocated will be transferrable to the commercial
fishery. That is an example of adaptive management. If the bluefish harvest isn't reached by either
sector over a period of 2-3 years, that percentage could be transferred for one (or possibly two) years
to the other sector. Unfortunately the Magnuson Stevenson Act doesn't allow this, so the first thing
would be to try and change that. Councilor Danielson spoke against an approach that would transfer
allocation between recreational and commercial harvesting sectors!.
Jim Hutchinson of the Recreational Fishing Alliance and President of the New York Sportfishing
Federation, thanked Mr. Bullard for coming to listen. He reminded everyone that MRFSS employs a
telephone-based household sampling system which has been described as "fatally flawed" by the
National Research Council (NRC). Quota allocations and rigid accountability measures are being
based on random telephone calls and random dockside samplings. The NRC's review of MRFSS
had a variety of suggestions as to how the survey could be improved and changes were to be
implemented by January 2009; however, nothing was done. Now NMFS' Marine Recreation
Information Program (MRIP) has been put in place and things aren't any better. Mr. Hutchinson
suggested that the NRC take a close look at MRIP now; he feels they won't be any happier with this
new survey. He also feels there needs to be a change in the way the fisheries are viewed. The
commercial fishery and the recreational fishery are two very different industries, one is in numbers
and one is in pounds, and yet they are managed the same. They should be treated individually and
allocated the same.
Councilor Karen Rivera raised the topic of shellfish and her main concern: maintaining good water
quality. She would like to see water quality more highly prioritized when funding issues are being
decided in the future. She believes in the important role that commercial shellfish farmers play in
maintaining the water's quality. They are the ones who physically put the animals in the water that
are responsible for improving water quality by acting as filter feeders. This service is provided to the
estuary without any cost to the taxpayer. However, when there are harmful algae blooms, which
Long Island is noted for, this creates bad water quality, which in turn prevents culturists from
providing their service. Ms. Rivera stated that aquaculture on Long Island is growing industry on
Long Island and they have a very good relationship with the DEC.
Emerson Hasbrouk of Cornell Cooperative Extension is encouraged by Mr. Bullard's attitude and
remarks regarding the importance of a working water front. He feels that the uncertainty is one of the
become outdated and he believes that we really need to evaluate where marine fisheries
management in New York should be heading. Another reason for re-evaluation is that the limited
entry (commercial license eligibility) section in the ECl is going to expire on 15 December 2015;
since action will be needed on that day, putting a plan in motion now is a good idea. The
Department is actually trying to consolidate a number of things and get rid of redundancies in the
current law.It's time to step back and look at the what to do in terms of managing the fisheries, where they are
heading and what makes the most sense in terms of efficiencies.
Mr. Gilmore asked the Council's license eligibility subcommittee be reconstituted and charged with
making recommendations for what they would like to see happen in December. Mr. Wise agreed that
we have been "running on autopilot" with the laws that govern commercial license eligibility. The
committee did a lot of work 10 years ago to set things in place but they have sat there since then.
The only thing that changes is the dates; he agrees with Mr. Gilmore that this should be taken up
again. This will be a topic at the November meeting and he is looking for volunteers to sit on various
committees or work groups, he asked for folks to consider this request and to let him know in
November.
Mr. Davi said he has no problem working on a subcommittee, however, it bothers him when you sit on
a subcommittee, come up with a plan only to have no action taken. Mr. Wise said that many of the
recommendations from 10 years ago have actually been implemented. Mr. Davi then referred to the
Apprenticeship Program, getting people into the fishery later on, etc. Even though the Apprenticeship
Program has been put into regulation, it hasn't been implemented.
Mr. Jordan requested information be put together from the past 10 years as far as how many licenses
have been lost, how many gained, and without naming names the demographics of the people who
have obtained licenses for the subcommittee meetings. Ms. Barnes said that is possible.
Mr. Gilmore noted that Senator Charles Schumer is planning on holding hearings in November
regarding a change to the Magnusun Stevens Act and allocations. Mr. Gilmore will be contacting a
few members of the Council to ask what issues they would like to have included. There currently isn't
an exact date; it will be after Election Day though.
Mr. Wise informed the Council and audience that Senator Owen Johnson is retiring from the State
legislature. Mr. Johnson has been responsible for most of the marine resource-related Legislation
that has been signed into law over the past several decades in New York, including the law that
created the marine Resources Advisory Council. Mr. Wise asked for the Council's authorization to
write the Senator on its behalf, commending his work on marine issues in New York over the years.
The Council concurred.

Ocean Action Plan
A spokesperson from DEC described the current status of the New York Ocean Action Plan (OAP).
The OAP is a coordinated and inclusive effort focused on improving the health of our ocean
ecosystems and their capacity to provide sustainable benefits to New Yorkers. Together, scientists,
resource managers, and a wide range of stakeholders will take stock of New York's ocean-related
activities and programs. Through a five-year action plan, the goal of the OAP is to achieve bettermanaged
and healthier ocean ecosystems that will benefit people, communities, and the natural
world. Grounded in short-term actions to reach long-term goals, the OAP will guide State government
funding, research, management, outreach and education choices. Ms. Karen Chytalo of DEC said
this group will be working with jointly with the Department of State and they are also working with
other sister agencies as well. This will be New York State speaking, not just the DEC. They are not
only looking at New York's waters out 3 miles but they are looking as far out as the shelf break.
This effort is being coordinated by the New York Department so Environmental conservation (DEC)
and State (DOS). If you would like more information please contact Matt Gove at
mtgove@gw.state.ny.us or 631-444-0468 or Gregory Capobianco at
Gregorv.capovianco@dos.ny.gov or 518-474-8811.

2012 Council Meeting Dates
The dates of the remaining regularly-scheduled meetings of the Council in calendar year 2012 are
listed below. All meetings will take place at the DEC Offices located at 205 Belle Mead Road, East
Setauket, NY 11733. The meetings generally take place at 2:00 p.m.
13 November

13 November 2012 Council Meeting
Agenda items for 13 November 2012

Check the Council's web page, http://www.somas.stonybrook.edu/MRAC prior to the 13 November
2012 Council meeting for agenda items. For further information about the Marine Resources
Advisory Councilor items covered in this bulletin, to make arrangements for addressing the Council
on an agenda item, or to suggest an agenda item, contact:
William Wise, Chairman
MarineResources Advisory Council
PHONE: 6311632-8656 FAX: 631/632-9441
wwise@notes.cc.sunysb.edu.